--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=9672
Dr. Piyush Gupta
During the North American GBC and Temple President's Meeting in New
Vrindavana this past May 13-15, a presentation was made about the dangers of
hearing loss for members of ISKCON.
Dr. Piyush Gupta, a medical doctor who practices in Columbus, Ohio warned
the assembled leaders that failure to monitor and sometimes limit the volume
of kirtans in ISKCON Temples could contribute to permanent hearing loss and
its attendant complications. This is a serious issue, and we present the
following question and answer with Dr. Gupta, or Premavilasa Das, as a issue
of concern for our community's well-being.
Hearing loss is a very common finding as devotees get older and is becoming
an increasingly recognized problem among older devotees, lets review what it
is and how we can best protect ourselves against it.
A.What causes hearing loss?
old age and chronic exposure to recreational noises are the two biggest
risk factors for hearing loss.
• Old age, 1/3 of all people between age 65-75 experience some degree of
hearing loss
• ½ of all people over 75
• Chronic exposure to loud noises
Occupational
Recreational
B.What are the symptoms of hearing loss, what should I watch out for?
Symptoms
• Muffled speech
• Difficulty understanding against background noise
• Frequently asking others to speak slowly, more clearly, and loudly
• Tinnitus(buzzing noise in the background)
• Withdrawal from conversations
• Avoidance of certain social settings
C. How is sound measured?
Sound is measures in decibels(DB). For every 10 DB increase in sound level,
we perceive the sound to be twice as loud.
D. What is the safe range and risk range for hearing?
Whisper is 30 decibels and normal conversations happen between 50-70
decibels and is considered safe for hearing. Washing machines and household
appliances produce about 70 decibels.
Sounds above 80 decibels are considered in the risk range meaning chronic
exposure to noises above 80 DB can produce progressive hearing loss over a
number of years. If you are regularly exposed to sounds above 80 DB, it is
recommended that one wears some kind of protective hearing device (ear plugs
etc).
Kirtans with multiple kartals/whompers easily reach sound levels of 95 DB or
higher
The risk of hearing damage depends on sound level and on exposure time. For
long-term exposure of workers in the industry, time periods of 8 hours per
day are typically considered in order to set protections standards. In cases
where exposures vary markedly from day to day, weekly sound exposure levels
(8 hours per day for 5 days per week) can also be useful.
US occupational safety and health administration(OSHA) recommends three
action levels at the workplace for an 8-hour working day.
Action levels:
A. At 80 DB employers shall make hearing protectors (e.g ear plugs or muffs)
available to workers. Below this limit, the risk to hearing is assumed to be
negligible.
B. At 85 dB protection of workers is mandatory.(please note this carefully)
C. 87 dB(A) is the maximum exposure limit value.(for an 8 hour working day)
Because the risk of hearing damage from long-term sound exposure depends
both on the level of the sound and on the exposure time, there is a
trade-off between the two factors.
As a result, listening to loud sounds over many hours per day entails a
similar risk as listening to an even louder sound for a shorter period per
day. In order not to increase overall exposure, each 3 DB increase in sound
levels must thus be compensated by halving the listening time.
For instance, listening to a Kirtan at 95 DB for 15 minutes per day is
equivalent to being exposed at work to 80 dB during 8 hours per day, under
the assumption that these exposures are repeated over a long period of time.
Without wearing protection, maximum permissible time to be exposed to 100 DB
is 4 minutes!!!!.
Listening to a Kirtan at 95 DB for 15 minutes per day or being in a Kirtan
with sounds of 104 DB for 3 minutes is equivalent to being exposed at work
to 80 dB during 8 hours per day( Industry recommends Action level A at this
level). For our devotees, chronic exposure to sound beyond this level will
result in years of physical agony and suffering.
For our temples and for all noise exposures, the level of 80 DB is regarded
as the critical intensity; at exposures below 80 dB the hearing losses are
negligible.
We may engage in Kirtaniyah sada harih without exposing ourselves or our
audience to risk at levels below 80 DB( this may provide solace and answer
to our critics who might suggest that holy name is absolute and this
discussion is irrelevant, holy name can be chanted for long hours as long as
it is properly done with proper volume and amplification) .
As I mentioned before, whether Kirtan is outdoors or is it in a large hall
with proper acoustics or is it in a small enclosed space with poor acoustics
will have a profound effect on the sound level and hearing.
Simple measures like avoiding Whompers and bigger kartals or multiple
kartals, using well tuned instruments and investing in proper acoustics can
mitigate this suffering while at the same time ensuring we engage in kirtan
as the signature of our sampradaya and save our souls
E. Are children at risk?
Children less than 6 years old are at increased risk for developing hearing
loss when exposed to sounds above 80 DB.
F. What are the complications of hearing loss?
• Depression
• Anxiety
• False sense that others are angry with you
• Insomnia
• Suicide
•
G. Can hearing loss be prevented?
Yes, it can be prevented by taking the following measures
• Avoid noise above 80 DB
• Wear earplugs or hearing protective devices
• Protect ears of children
• Be alert to Hazardous noise
H. What we can do collectively to protect the ears of devotees and our
children?
Be extremely mindful of using bigger kartals/whompers/multiple mridangas in
closed room settings.
Handle amplification in microphones properly
Avoid sounds/instruments which are distracting and take away from the
meditation of sweet kirtan
Educate devotees about properly playing Kartals and not drowning the sound
of the holy name in Kartals
Make policies at local levels
Build temple rooms with proper acoustics, and equip them with proper
speakers, microphones etc.
` Wear protective devices (ear plugs) if other devotees are not considerate
Thank you to the good doctor for giving a presentation. This is very much
required. Whompers especially I think should only be used outside. Temples
can install a red flashing light when sound levels go above a threshold,
they only cost about $50.
As part of a presentation, it will be nice to present some action items
which temples can adopt.
Comment posted by amalagaura on June 30th, 2011
2
I have had tinnitus for about two years. I cannot say that it is definitely
due to the kirtans of years past, or the rock and roll listening of youth,
or aging alone. It is a high pitched "brain sound" that is due to some loss
of the high pitched receptors in the inner ear. You either tolerate it (as
it is constant, 24/7, like the sound of a television when there is no
station on) or you may go somewhat crazy. Nonetheless, I must say that the
sweetness of kirtan is not dependent upon loudness. Some may think that they
will 'chash maya away' by loud kirtan, but it is not the case. Krishna
kirtan is not like going to a Led Zeppelin concert. It is sweet and
melodious, bringing rise in the better cases to affectionate feelings for
Krishna, like for a lover and friend. So, I cannot criticize loud kirtan,
but the physical effects upon the hearing apparatus may be real. Loud is not
necessarily better. Hare Krishna.
Pusta Krishna das
Comment posted by pustakrishna on June 30th, 2011
3
As I victim of hearing loss I do hope that devotees can learn from this
presentation. My devotee friend Moshe in Tel Aviv begged me not to attend
loud kirtans, saying my hearing is needed.
It embarrassing to have to tell devotees speak loudly, especially since
most think it polite to speak softly.
Also for preaching when the kirtan is crashingly loud with over amplication
new people are not attracted. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura sings, "madhurya
(sweet) mrdanga, not "loud mrdangas competing with jimbe drums.
Comment posted by kavicandra swami on June 30th, 2011
4
Thank you for this article. I've been waiting for something like this to
come up in the news
Many young people are also showing signs of hearing loss, and it'll just get
worse over the years. In the name of "performing the yuga-dharma" many
instrumentalists don't hold back their emotions and passions while
performing in kirtan, nor are they conscious of how loud they're playing,
etc. Many devotees end up hurting themselves materially and spiritually due
to these reasons.
However, we can talk all we want about this issue, but I'm more interested
in how they're going to implement noise restrictions.
Comment posted by gracenote108 on June 30th, 2011
5
In this article there was quoting from this Dr and there was explanation of
the technical mundane effects of loud sounds, but, I saw no quotations from
our Founder-Acharya HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. And no quote from
our shastra as to what are the good effects of being subjected to LOUD
Kirtan of the Holy Names of Sri Krishna.
"So these Gosvamis were engaged, krsnotkirtana-gana-nartana, chanting and
dancing. Kirtana means chanting, and nartana means dancing. Krsnotkirtana,
utkirtana. Utkirtana means very loudly, not softly.
So this loud kirtana was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya. So this disturbance,
this complaint, was current even in His own time. "
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Six Gosvamis Lecture, Sri Sri Sad-govamy-astaka — Los
Angeles, November 18, 1968
"(second kirtana — Prabhupada starts tapping microphone) I think it is not
working. This is not working. (kirtana continues) This is not working.
Jaya-gopala: It's working. It's working, but it isn't loud at all.
Prabhupada: Well, loud outside.(?) We want loud.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.8 — Seattle, October 21, 1968
"Govinda dasi: Everybody wants kirtana.
Dayananda: Can it be just sort of a quiet kirtana, since it's getting a
little late?
Prabhupada: Quiet kirtana? (laughter) Kirtana means loud. (laughter) You
make it quite please.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Class in Los Angeles — Los Angeles, November 15, 1968
(While Srila Prabhupad agreed to make it quiet, because it was late and
would disturb the non-devotee neighbors, the point should not be lost that
Kirtan Means Loud.}
"Devotee: Still too loud.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee: It's too loud downstairs. There have been complaints from the
neighbors.
Prabhupada: Loud, they are very good. How can you stop it? As soon as you
chant, somebodyi That you cannot check. You may stop mrdanga. That's all.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — August 11, 1973, Paris
Again, the only reason Prabhupad agreed to lower the volume of the kirtan
was due to complaints from the non-devotee neighbors. Not because he agreed
that loud kirtan was 'bad'.
From CC Adi Lila 17.207 (these are complaints by Hindus made to the Kazi
about Nimai Pandit
"'Now He loudly sings all kinds of songs, claps, and plays drums and hand
cymbals, making a tumultuous sound that deafens our ears."
(I hit limit, more in second post)
Comment posted by ameyatma on July 2nd, 2011
6
Prabhus,
Thanks for this excellent article. I am presently suffering from hearing
loss. In fact I just a surgery yesterday!
I joined ISKCON in Sep 1977 and for all my brahmacary years and about 10
years as a grhastha (total of 21 years), I was in kirtanas during mangala
artik, Deity greetings, and Sundara artika.
As the writer clearly points out, the sweetness of krishna kirtana doesn't
have to damage our ears. So approrpriate measure should be taken at all
ISKCON Temples to ensure that our congregational members are informed of the
problem.
Something that the articles didn't mention is that devotees SHOULD have a
medical exam at least once a year with a specialist (ENT doctor). It does
pay off in the long run to prevent rather than to wait to last minute, when
you hearing is GONE.
I regret that I didn't early enough and that this is my second ear surgery.
Your servant,
Yugala Kishro dasa
Alachua, FL
Comment posted by Yugal Kishor Dasa on July 2nd, 2011
7
Loud doesn't have to be ear-shattering loud. Please don't quote Prabhupada
to support the playing of those types of kirtan. Common sense should be
exercised in this regard.
Anybody who is aware of Prabhupada's standard of kirtan knows well that he
was against kirtan that was all "clanging and banging."
From his own words, kirtan should be sweet and melodious.
We can understand this by his own example.
Comment posted by gracenote108 on July 3rd, 2011
8
Dear devotees
PAMHO AGTSP AGTSG & SG
Hare Krishna
I guess there is a generational syndrome therei When one is young, one is
full of energy and may like speed, hard beat, loud this or thati One also
likes to dance. In short, one may have excess energy to spend. This
phenomenon can be seen from childhood and gradually decreases as one's body
agesi
So, on one hand we have, at large, a generation gapi Globally many a
youngster tend to like it faster, harder and louder, while many elders like
it slower, softer and melodiousi
The point is that attention should be focused on the Holy Name, not on the
sound (if not the noise, in the case of whompers) of karatalas and
mridangasi Often, an external observer may get the sensation that the so
called kirtan is an opportunity to let it all out, while observing what may
look like a "spiritual" discothequei
Besides, when one refers to kirtan, at the time of Mahaprabhu and the six
Goswamis, as in the quotes above, one refers to outside kirtan, performed in
the open, out in the streets or in nature, which is quite different! There,
the excess noise can be evacuated in the open space and one may choose the
distance where he or she wants to stand from such or such loud instrument.
Moreover, the idea of a kirtan being loud is targeted at catching people's
attention and bringing it to this congregational and somewhat festive
chanting of the Names of Godi
While performing kirtan in a closed space, be it a small room or a larger
temple room, there is no escape from decibels, unless one leaves the room
which, everyone will agree upon, is not the purpose of performing kirtan.
Sound is reverberated without discrimination by the walls and ceiling down
to our fragile ear drums.
As it is, Srila Prabhupada was considerate of the neighbors, and indicated
that one could go all the way to singing without instruments, which we also
had to do in the Paris temple (of the rue vieiille du temple) in the early
eigties, singing every mangala artika, without any mridanga or karatala.
Srila Prabhupada indicates that the chanting may not be checked, as devotion
for God finds thereby a way of expressing itself while generating various
emotionsi
In this way, kirtan is loud and congregational, while japa is personal and
gayatri mantra is performed silently, within one's mind. Thereby, there are
different degrees of utterance and various forms of practicei
Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on July 7th, 2011
9
At last, I would just like to raise the point that the kirtan performed
during the Sunday program may differ from the one devotees perform during
weekdays, when they are amongst themselves.
The point is that we are a preaching movement. What we do for the public, so
as to enable them to climb up the spiritual latter and approach Krishna
consciousness, should be done in a spirit of compassioni
If our (over) loud (or too noisy) kirtan chases people away or if our wild
dancing turns them off, what have we gainedi?
As it is, most people are used to more sobriety in places of worship (be it
in Hindu temples or of any other religion), where everyone is respectful of
others and careful about allowing them to also find a conducive atmosphere
to also address their own prayers to Godi
Hence, in a preaching spirit, shouldn't we make sure our singing is
attractive and our sound level not repulsive?
Besides, Mahaprabhu and His close associates would make sure they were
amongst each other, with no outsider around, so that they could allow
themselves to let loose all their feelings and expressions of ecstasyi
Moreover, the most important point being the utterance of the Holy Name,
shouldn't we make sure that the Holy Name predominates and can be heard over
the sound of all instruments ? Besides, all attention should be focused on
the Holy Name and not being distracted by the beat or any other form of
musical entertainmenti
In that spirit, Srila Bhaktisiddantha Sarasvati Thakur Maharaja Prabhupada
would at times break the rhythm or chant off track, so that devotees would
focus their attention back on Sri Nama, as it is also one of the four kinds
of Namabhasa - stobha - to chant the Holy Name for musical entertainmenti!
At last, our performance of kirtan and, as it is, of any devotional
activity, is to be performed for the pleasure of Krishnai
Have we asked ourselves whether our spiritual orchestra was of pleasure to
Krishna and the Deities, or are we just performing it selfishly to please
our senses, according to the arrangement of the gunas that still influence
us and pull us like puppets ?
In this way, there may be kirtan performed in the mode of ignorance or
passion !
What about kirtan performed in the mode of goodness and furthermore pure
goodnessi?
Isn't it a goal we should try to reachi?
Yours in the service of the Holy Name
Hari Haraye Nama Krishna Yadavaya Namah
Das dasanudasa
Puskaraksa das
Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on July 7th, 2011
10
Dear Ameyatma prabhu
I want to make it very clear to you that we are not against loud
kirtan/bhajan as you have amply quoted from scriptures.
We want to move away from:
A. Loud and ear shattering cacophony of whompers/kartals being played
mindlessly in our kirtans. An almost compulsive habit to bang the kartals
as loudly as possible has caught up with many devotees and these devotees
are blissfully unaware of the effect it is having on other
devotees/guests
B. Loud amplification which compels the audience to move out of the temple
to protect their ears
C. Playing musical instruments so loudly that the holy name is drowned
When the musical accompaniment is done nicely, it makes the kirtan much
more
relishable, but the accompaniment is just that, it is meant to support the
chanting of the holy name.On the day that I remember noticing that very few
devotees were chanting, the lead singer was amplified very, very loudly
through the microphone,
and the mrdanga was miked at the top end. It is interesting that other
religious groups that perform congregational chanting, also discuss the
important of balancing the volume of the leader with the congregation.Curt
Taipale, a sound engineer who specializes in installations in
Christian Churches writes:One thing you'll find when the sound system gets
too loud is that the
congregation starts to lose a sense of corporate
worship. In other words, congregational singing is a very different form of
music
than performance music. It requires a fine balancing of the volume of
amplified sound with the level of the congregation singing.
As fragmental portions of the Supreme, we can understand why we have such
a wonderful experience in kirtana when we are singing as just one voice
among hundreds, but creating something much bigger than ourselves.
So the level of the sound system is very important is setting the scene
for devotees to be inspired to chant loudly. If they feel the leader is
too powerful through the mic, then subtly but surely, the congregation
will be uninspired to sing. HG Aindra prabhu is known for his kirtans
and he would have mridanga players perfect every note otherwise he would
stop them or chastise them. Devotees who are affecting people all over the
world with the holy name are the ones who insist on playing musical
instruments correctly. Kirtans should be regulated so that the Lord will be
pleased; thus devotees will be pleased in return.
Premvilas das
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ISKCONCHENNAI/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ISKCONCHENNAI/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
ISKCONCHENNAI-digest@yahoogroups.com
ISKCONCHENNAI-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ISKCONCHENNAI-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=9672
Dr. Piyush Gupta
During the North American GBC and Temple President's Meeting in New
Vrindavana this past May 13-15, a presentation was made about the dangers of
hearing loss for members of ISKCON.
Dr. Piyush Gupta, a medical doctor who practices in Columbus, Ohio warned
the assembled leaders that failure to monitor and sometimes limit the volume
of kirtans in ISKCON Temples could contribute to permanent hearing loss and
its attendant complications. This is a serious issue, and we present the
following question and answer with Dr. Gupta, or Premavilasa Das, as a issue
of concern for our community's well-being.
Hearing loss is a very common finding as devotees get older and is becoming
an increasingly recognized problem among older devotees, lets review what it
is and how we can best protect ourselves against it.
A.What causes hearing loss?
old age and chronic exposure to recreational noises are the two biggest
risk factors for hearing loss.
• Old age, 1/3 of all people between age 65-75 experience some degree of
hearing loss
• ½ of all people over 75
• Chronic exposure to loud noises
Occupational
Recreational
B.What are the symptoms of hearing loss, what should I watch out for?
Symptoms
• Muffled speech
• Difficulty understanding against background noise
• Frequently asking others to speak slowly, more clearly, and loudly
• Tinnitus(buzzing noise in the background)
• Withdrawal from conversations
• Avoidance of certain social settings
C. How is sound measured?
Sound is measures in decibels(DB). For every 10 DB increase in sound level,
we perceive the sound to be twice as loud.
D. What is the safe range and risk range for hearing?
Whisper is 30 decibels and normal conversations happen between 50-70
decibels and is considered safe for hearing. Washing machines and household
appliances produce about 70 decibels.
Sounds above 80 decibels are considered in the risk range meaning chronic
exposure to noises above 80 DB can produce progressive hearing loss over a
number of years. If you are regularly exposed to sounds above 80 DB, it is
recommended that one wears some kind of protective hearing device (ear plugs
etc).
Kirtans with multiple kartals/whompers easily reach sound levels of 95 DB or
higher
The risk of hearing damage depends on sound level and on exposure time. For
long-term exposure of workers in the industry, time periods of 8 hours per
day are typically considered in order to set protections standards. In cases
where exposures vary markedly from day to day, weekly sound exposure levels
(8 hours per day for 5 days per week) can also be useful.
US occupational safety and health administration(OSHA) recommends three
action levels at the workplace for an 8-hour working day.
Action levels:
A. At 80 DB employers shall make hearing protectors (e.g ear plugs or muffs)
available to workers. Below this limit, the risk to hearing is assumed to be
negligible.
B. At 85 dB protection of workers is mandatory.(please note this carefully)
C. 87 dB(A) is the maximum exposure limit value.(for an 8 hour working day)
Because the risk of hearing damage from long-term sound exposure depends
both on the level of the sound and on the exposure time, there is a
trade-off between the two factors.
As a result, listening to loud sounds over many hours per day entails a
similar risk as listening to an even louder sound for a shorter period per
day. In order not to increase overall exposure, each 3 DB increase in sound
levels must thus be compensated by halving the listening time.
For instance, listening to a Kirtan at 95 DB for 15 minutes per day is
equivalent to being exposed at work to 80 dB during 8 hours per day, under
the assumption that these exposures are repeated over a long period of time.
Without wearing protection, maximum permissible time to be exposed to 100 DB
is 4 minutes!!!!.
Listening to a Kirtan at 95 DB for 15 minutes per day or being in a Kirtan
with sounds of 104 DB for 3 minutes is equivalent to being exposed at work
to 80 dB during 8 hours per day( Industry recommends Action level A at this
level). For our devotees, chronic exposure to sound beyond this level will
result in years of physical agony and suffering.
For our temples and for all noise exposures, the level of 80 DB is regarded
as the critical intensity; at exposures below 80 dB the hearing losses are
negligible.
We may engage in Kirtaniyah sada harih without exposing ourselves or our
audience to risk at levels below 80 DB( this may provide solace and answer
to our critics who might suggest that holy name is absolute and this
discussion is irrelevant, holy name can be chanted for long hours as long as
it is properly done with proper volume and amplification) .
As I mentioned before, whether Kirtan is outdoors or is it in a large hall
with proper acoustics or is it in a small enclosed space with poor acoustics
will have a profound effect on the sound level and hearing.
Simple measures like avoiding Whompers and bigger kartals or multiple
kartals, using well tuned instruments and investing in proper acoustics can
mitigate this suffering while at the same time ensuring we engage in kirtan
as the signature of our sampradaya and save our souls
E. Are children at risk?
Children less than 6 years old are at increased risk for developing hearing
loss when exposed to sounds above 80 DB.
F. What are the complications of hearing loss?
• Depression
• Anxiety
• False sense that others are angry with you
• Insomnia
• Suicide
•
G. Can hearing loss be prevented?
Yes, it can be prevented by taking the following measures
• Avoid noise above 80 DB
• Wear earplugs or hearing protective devices
• Protect ears of children
• Be alert to Hazardous noise
H. What we can do collectively to protect the ears of devotees and our
children?
Be extremely mindful of using bigger kartals/whompers/multiple mridangas in
closed room settings.
Handle amplification in microphones properly
Avoid sounds/instruments which are distracting and take away from the
meditation of sweet kirtan
Educate devotees about properly playing Kartals and not drowning the sound
of the holy name in Kartals
Make policies at local levels
Build temple rooms with proper acoustics, and equip them with proper
speakers, microphones etc.
` Wear protective devices (ear plugs) if other devotees are not considerate
Thank you to the good doctor for giving a presentation. This is very much
required. Whompers especially I think should only be used outside. Temples
can install a red flashing light when sound levels go above a threshold,
they only cost about $50.
As part of a presentation, it will be nice to present some action items
which temples can adopt.
Comment posted by amalagaura on June 30th, 2011
2
I have had tinnitus for about two years. I cannot say that it is definitely
due to the kirtans of years past, or the rock and roll listening of youth,
or aging alone. It is a high pitched "brain sound" that is due to some loss
of the high pitched receptors in the inner ear. You either tolerate it (as
it is constant, 24/7, like the sound of a television when there is no
station on) or you may go somewhat crazy. Nonetheless, I must say that the
sweetness of kirtan is not dependent upon loudness. Some may think that they
will 'chash maya away' by loud kirtan, but it is not the case. Krishna
kirtan is not like going to a Led Zeppelin concert. It is sweet and
melodious, bringing rise in the better cases to affectionate feelings for
Krishna, like for a lover and friend. So, I cannot criticize loud kirtan,
but the physical effects upon the hearing apparatus may be real. Loud is not
necessarily better. Hare Krishna.
Pusta Krishna das
Comment posted by pustakrishna on June 30th, 2011
3
As I victim of hearing loss I do hope that devotees can learn from this
presentation. My devotee friend Moshe in Tel Aviv begged me not to attend
loud kirtans, saying my hearing is needed.
It embarrassing to have to tell devotees speak loudly, especially since
most think it polite to speak softly.
Also for preaching when the kirtan is crashingly loud with over amplication
new people are not attracted. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura sings, "madhurya
(sweet) mrdanga, not "loud mrdangas competing with jimbe drums.
Comment posted by kavicandra swami on June 30th, 2011
4
Thank you for this article. I've been waiting for something like this to
come up in the news
Many young people are also showing signs of hearing loss, and it'll just get
worse over the years. In the name of "performing the yuga-dharma" many
instrumentalists don't hold back their emotions and passions while
performing in kirtan, nor are they conscious of how loud they're playing,
etc. Many devotees end up hurting themselves materially and spiritually due
to these reasons.
However, we can talk all we want about this issue, but I'm more interested
in how they're going to implement noise restrictions.
Comment posted by gracenote108 on June 30th, 2011
5
In this article there was quoting from this Dr and there was explanation of
the technical mundane effects of loud sounds, but, I saw no quotations from
our Founder-Acharya HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. And no quote from
our shastra as to what are the good effects of being subjected to LOUD
Kirtan of the Holy Names of Sri Krishna.
"So these Gosvamis were engaged, krsnotkirtana-gana-nartana, chanting and
dancing. Kirtana means chanting, and nartana means dancing. Krsnotkirtana,
utkirtana. Utkirtana means very loudly, not softly.
So this loud kirtana was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya. So this disturbance,
this complaint, was current even in His own time. "
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Six Gosvamis Lecture, Sri Sri Sad-govamy-astaka — Los
Angeles, November 18, 1968
"(second kirtana — Prabhupada starts tapping microphone) I think it is not
working. This is not working. (kirtana continues) This is not working.
Jaya-gopala: It's working. It's working, but it isn't loud at all.
Prabhupada: Well, loud outside.(?) We want loud.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.8 — Seattle, October 21, 1968
"Govinda dasi: Everybody wants kirtana.
Dayananda: Can it be just sort of a quiet kirtana, since it's getting a
little late?
Prabhupada: Quiet kirtana? (laughter) Kirtana means loud. (laughter) You
make it quite please.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Class in Los Angeles — Los Angeles, November 15, 1968
(While Srila Prabhupad agreed to make it quiet, because it was late and
would disturb the non-devotee neighbors, the point should not be lost that
Kirtan Means Loud.}
"Devotee: Still too loud.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee: It's too loud downstairs. There have been complaints from the
neighbors.
Prabhupada: Loud, they are very good. How can you stop it? As soon as you
chant, somebodyi That you cannot check. You may stop mrdanga. That's all.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — August 11, 1973, Paris
Again, the only reason Prabhupad agreed to lower the volume of the kirtan
was due to complaints from the non-devotee neighbors. Not because he agreed
that loud kirtan was 'bad'.
From CC Adi Lila 17.207 (these are complaints by Hindus made to the Kazi
about Nimai Pandit
"'Now He loudly sings all kinds of songs, claps, and plays drums and hand
cymbals, making a tumultuous sound that deafens our ears."
(I hit limit, more in second post)
Comment posted by ameyatma on July 2nd, 2011
6
Prabhus,
Thanks for this excellent article. I am presently suffering from hearing
loss. In fact I just a surgery yesterday!
I joined ISKCON in Sep 1977 and for all my brahmacary years and about 10
years as a grhastha (total of 21 years), I was in kirtanas during mangala
artik, Deity greetings, and Sundara artika.
As the writer clearly points out, the sweetness of krishna kirtana doesn't
have to damage our ears. So approrpriate measure should be taken at all
ISKCON Temples to ensure that our congregational members are informed of the
problem.
Something that the articles didn't mention is that devotees SHOULD have a
medical exam at least once a year with a specialist (ENT doctor). It does
pay off in the long run to prevent rather than to wait to last minute, when
you hearing is GONE.
I regret that I didn't early enough and that this is my second ear surgery.
Your servant,
Yugala Kishro dasa
Alachua, FL
Comment posted by Yugal Kishor Dasa on July 2nd, 2011
7
Loud doesn't have to be ear-shattering loud. Please don't quote Prabhupada
to support the playing of those types of kirtan. Common sense should be
exercised in this regard.
Anybody who is aware of Prabhupada's standard of kirtan knows well that he
was against kirtan that was all "clanging and banging."
From his own words, kirtan should be sweet and melodious.
We can understand this by his own example.
Comment posted by gracenote108 on July 3rd, 2011
8
Dear devotees
PAMHO AGTSP AGTSG & SG
Hare Krishna
I guess there is a generational syndrome therei When one is young, one is
full of energy and may like speed, hard beat, loud this or thati One also
likes to dance. In short, one may have excess energy to spend. This
phenomenon can be seen from childhood and gradually decreases as one's body
agesi
So, on one hand we have, at large, a generation gapi Globally many a
youngster tend to like it faster, harder and louder, while many elders like
it slower, softer and melodiousi
The point is that attention should be focused on the Holy Name, not on the
sound (if not the noise, in the case of whompers) of karatalas and
mridangasi Often, an external observer may get the sensation that the so
called kirtan is an opportunity to let it all out, while observing what may
look like a "spiritual" discothequei
Besides, when one refers to kirtan, at the time of Mahaprabhu and the six
Goswamis, as in the quotes above, one refers to outside kirtan, performed in
the open, out in the streets or in nature, which is quite different! There,
the excess noise can be evacuated in the open space and one may choose the
distance where he or she wants to stand from such or such loud instrument.
Moreover, the idea of a kirtan being loud is targeted at catching people's
attention and bringing it to this congregational and somewhat festive
chanting of the Names of Godi
While performing kirtan in a closed space, be it a small room or a larger
temple room, there is no escape from decibels, unless one leaves the room
which, everyone will agree upon, is not the purpose of performing kirtan.
Sound is reverberated without discrimination by the walls and ceiling down
to our fragile ear drums.
As it is, Srila Prabhupada was considerate of the neighbors, and indicated
that one could go all the way to singing without instruments, which we also
had to do in the Paris temple (of the rue vieiille du temple) in the early
eigties, singing every mangala artika, without any mridanga or karatala.
Srila Prabhupada indicates that the chanting may not be checked, as devotion
for God finds thereby a way of expressing itself while generating various
emotionsi
In this way, kirtan is loud and congregational, while japa is personal and
gayatri mantra is performed silently, within one's mind. Thereby, there are
different degrees of utterance and various forms of practicei
Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on July 7th, 2011
9
At last, I would just like to raise the point that the kirtan performed
during the Sunday program may differ from the one devotees perform during
weekdays, when they are amongst themselves.
The point is that we are a preaching movement. What we do for the public, so
as to enable them to climb up the spiritual latter and approach Krishna
consciousness, should be done in a spirit of compassioni
If our (over) loud (or too noisy) kirtan chases people away or if our wild
dancing turns them off, what have we gainedi?
As it is, most people are used to more sobriety in places of worship (be it
in Hindu temples or of any other religion), where everyone is respectful of
others and careful about allowing them to also find a conducive atmosphere
to also address their own prayers to Godi
Hence, in a preaching spirit, shouldn't we make sure our singing is
attractive and our sound level not repulsive?
Besides, Mahaprabhu and His close associates would make sure they were
amongst each other, with no outsider around, so that they could allow
themselves to let loose all their feelings and expressions of ecstasyi
Moreover, the most important point being the utterance of the Holy Name,
shouldn't we make sure that the Holy Name predominates and can be heard over
the sound of all instruments ? Besides, all attention should be focused on
the Holy Name and not being distracted by the beat or any other form of
musical entertainmenti
In that spirit, Srila Bhaktisiddantha Sarasvati Thakur Maharaja Prabhupada
would at times break the rhythm or chant off track, so that devotees would
focus their attention back on Sri Nama, as it is also one of the four kinds
of Namabhasa - stobha - to chant the Holy Name for musical entertainmenti!
At last, our performance of kirtan and, as it is, of any devotional
activity, is to be performed for the pleasure of Krishnai
Have we asked ourselves whether our spiritual orchestra was of pleasure to
Krishna and the Deities, or are we just performing it selfishly to please
our senses, according to the arrangement of the gunas that still influence
us and pull us like puppets ?
In this way, there may be kirtan performed in the mode of ignorance or
passion !
What about kirtan performed in the mode of goodness and furthermore pure
goodnessi?
Isn't it a goal we should try to reachi?
Yours in the service of the Holy Name
Hari Haraye Nama Krishna Yadavaya Namah
Das dasanudasa
Puskaraksa das
Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on July 7th, 2011
10
Dear Ameyatma prabhu
I want to make it very clear to you that we are not against loud
kirtan/bhajan as you have amply quoted from scriptures.
We want to move away from:
A. Loud and ear shattering cacophony of whompers/kartals being played
mindlessly in our kirtans. An almost compulsive habit to bang the kartals
as loudly as possible has caught up with many devotees and these devotees
are blissfully unaware of the effect it is having on other
devotees/guests
B. Loud amplification which compels the audience to move out of the temple
to protect their ears
C. Playing musical instruments so loudly that the holy name is drowned
When the musical accompaniment is done nicely, it makes the kirtan much
more
relishable, but the accompaniment is just that, it is meant to support the
chanting of the holy name.On the day that I remember noticing that very few
devotees were chanting, the lead singer was amplified very, very loudly
through the microphone,
and the mrdanga was miked at the top end. It is interesting that other
religious groups that perform congregational chanting, also discuss the
important of balancing the volume of the leader with the congregation.Curt
Taipale, a sound engineer who specializes in installations in
Christian Churches writes:One thing you'll find when the sound system gets
too loud is that the
congregation starts to lose a sense of corporate
worship. In other words, congregational singing is a very different form of
music
than performance music. It requires a fine balancing of the volume of
amplified sound with the level of the congregation singing.
As fragmental portions of the Supreme, we can understand why we have such
a wonderful experience in kirtana when we are singing as just one voice
among hundreds, but creating something much bigger than ourselves.
So the level of the sound system is very important is setting the scene
for devotees to be inspired to chant loudly. If they feel the leader is
too powerful through the mic, then subtly but surely, the congregation
will be uninspired to sing. HG Aindra prabhu is known for his kirtans
and he would have mridanga players perfect every note otherwise he would
stop them or chastise them. Devotees who are affecting people all over the
world with the holy name are the ones who insist on playing musical
instruments correctly. Kirtans should be regulated so that the Lord will be
pleased; thus devotees will be pleased in return.
Premvilas das
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ISKCONCHENNAI/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ISKCONCHENNAI/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
ISKCONCHENNAI-digest@yahoogroups.com
ISKCONCHENNAI-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ISKCONCHENNAI-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
No comments:
Post a Comment